Marx’s economics/social outlook stated something to the effect that the classes are vyying for limited resources. To me, that is a negative outlook. And in all my wanderings and ponderings, what seems to be a common theme is this idea in socialism versus so- called capitalism (every type of economic system is capitalist. Depends on who is the capitalist in the situation, each is labled accordingly.) what appears to be a common contrast is not so much the absence or presence of a God. Both systems justify questioning either way equally well. It is the belief, however, in a just God, a hopeful God, and a God who provides that drives economic progress over stagnancy.

If God or the forces of nature, or whatever a person or society believes drives its system is believed to be entirely evil, that is cause for a closing down, a hunkering down like bears in the winter, of the economic system. If, however, there is a belief that all can be, will eventually be well (either through a belief in a just and caring God or belief in mankind in general) capitalism prevails.

And not surprisingly, capitalism drives progress. It is expansionist in nature, constantly seeking refined methods, new territory, undiscovered reserves. To get behind such a drive, one must have a fundamental positive outlook.

On the other hand, socialism, communism,fascism promote stagnancy based on the presumption that things will eventually “run out.”

From a personal perspective, I believe in an Almighty and just God who has provided enough to sustain the world. Only when he believes he is finished with his creation will he remove his hand from the peacekeeping of his fatherhood and allow us to destroy ourselves.

Our planet will not be divested of the rich and generous resources provided by a rich and generous father, nor will we as humans be divested of a capital seeking nature. It will unfortunately be the strivings amonst ourselves as jealous siblings that will rob us of obtaining a peaceful and eternal existence as a planet. Jealousy has and will continue to overcome us until we shred ourselves asunder.

Attempting to force “perfection” on an imperfect world is imperfection in its worse state. Such were the ambitions of the world’s cruelest despots from Nero to Hitler to Stalin, and all others who had their own concepts of perfection which they sought to make universal.

You cannot remove capitalism from real life. It is impossible.

On the other hand, I maintain that I’ve heard the arguments you’ve recounted, and they all come from those with a social agenda. Without these theories, socialists are out of a job, quite frankly. The truth is, man is a greedy creature. WIthout a purpose for being unselfish (i.e. a spiritual journey, a hero’s journey) that is opposed to narcissistic world views, communism can only, will only continue to fail.

I’d like to challenge you to rub elbows with some accounting majors and study economics. I came fom communism and once I left, determined never to return.

Capitalism indeed poses evils– I favor lassiesse fare free enterprise….the freedom to choose communism or capitalism, depending on my needs and goals that day.

Anyway, I writing this bit here at the end of my debate because if I wrote it before, you won’t take me seriously at all. I’m just a sophomore in high school without a major. I’m studying European history right now though, and we are learning about the beginnings of Communism and the Industrial Revolution clash. I was born in Romania, one year after the communist dictator there was publicly mutilated along with his wife. They soaked up all the wealth while breaking the backs of workers. All of my family members that are one year old than me know the hardships of the Soviet Bloc, and therefore are not communist nor capitalist, but some form of leftist-independents. It’s been nice debating with a group up, I’ve done it before, but only other adult communists.

I’m perfectly fine with being hated by my teachers. It’s pretty typical these days because I refuse to be cut with their cookie cutters. I respect what you have written, but I’ve heard it all before. I’m not convinced- if natural selection occurs in biology,why would that not apply to sociology?

Of course those who pursue wealth are more likely to be rewarded with it than those who don’t (excepting the elite, which is actually a separate issue.) If we all become equal, striving will cease, as will crops and other commodities. The angst, pain and struggle is a necessary part of the human existence. Even Voltaire knew that.

Capitalism creates more and more greed. A communist society is hard to form in a capitalism world, just like it was in Russia. There will still be capitalists around, which is why honest people need to become dictators to get rid of dissidents, because dissidents destroy order and the chance of having a perfect communist society. The way capitalists put down communists each day is disgusting. What I am saying is that if the world was kept communist or communal thinking, as it evolved that way, it would not be disrupted by greed. I think Marx or Engels wrote about how capitalism started and how it could have been avoided and how it was before it. Interesting to read, but I won’t go into that.

I agree money is power but only because it does represent things. You can hardly eat money or use it for clothing or shelter. Money is power to get those things and therefore represents them. If it did not represent things it would have little value and no one would serve for it.

With communal living, there will be nothing to war about if everyone lives an equal lifestyle and can’t get selfish because “the rich guy has more so I should rob him.” War is caused by greed caused by property. What would a communist fight over other than beliefs?

If everybody is equal and has one of something, there will still be greedy people who want two. They will band together and and take other peoples’ one. This happened in communal tribalism. Communism is tribalism to a science and it cannot work because man is intrinsically flawed.

If man were perfect, utopian communism would not need a revolution to come into being for it would happen naturally and voluntarily. The fact that it demands a totalitarian system and a huge bureaucracy to bring it into being is evidence that man is flawed and incapable of such a system that requires complete pureness of heart.

I do not dismiss communism as an idea but I dismiss it as a reality in a world where it is dependent upon the purity and love of mankind. The history of the world begins almost immediately with blood and it will likely end with it also.

When mankind as a whole is perfect in his love to his neighbor get in touch with me and I will consider communism. As long as natural impulses are the driving factor and lust and greed are prevalent in all types of societies I will opt for representative systems of checks and balances and will support the concept of free nation-states and individual rights. These systems are imperfect but they are also designed for the imperfect and they reflect the true nature of the world in which we live.

As for Cuba, they don’t need to engage in capitalism. If you don’t know, it is an isolated island with few resources. How the hell can you survive without the needed resources? Communal trade is being stopped between Cuba, South America, Russia, China, because the selfish ignorant US wants to show Cuba’s decline as communist propaganda, just as they do with Russia and China. Russia is having more problems now in a capitalist society which is corrupted by money, which is entangled with power, which is held by the rich. The US and Russia aren’t democratic. You know what democracy means? It is rule by the people (most of which are under middle class). In actuality, who rules the US and Russia today? The oligarchy – rule by the minority. What minority? The 1% rich politicians – honestly – look at the governments and please name me the workers you see. All of them are corrupted rich bastards who are controlled by corporations and private industry, who are in control by money power, and it goes in a circle. In a communist society with no rich or poor, everyone is equal and the majority, therefore it is complete democracy. You cannot argue with that however you try, you will be proved wrong, unless you choose not to care, be ignorant, and make stuff up. Cuba the socialist nation was once great because of trade, now it cannot reach communism because it is being destroyed by selfish bastards who cannot tolerate other ideologies and think their way is the only right way and that the world cannot be ‘infected’ any other way. That is imperialism my friend. Would you like it if the majority of the world was communist, and you stand out as a capitalist and are suppressed because of the way you think? You are under gov surveillance, are not allowed in government, cannot spread your ways, cannot rule… what the hell kind of freedom is that.

Also before you argue, please read Engel’s ‘The Principles of Communism’ and know the difference between communism and socialism. You think they intertwine and obviously have no clue how the government is run or the economy. Read it because it is not long, and it is found on the internet in one medium sized page. It is not complete, but a great overview to understand communism. It is also from the 19th century so don’t try to contradict it with modern government.

Sorry, I didn’t really want to start a huge debate or a fight for that matter, but if you knew communism, you would prove yourself wrong. Most people don’t due to Cold War propaganda. I hate ignorance – I once read on an anti-communist forum full of idiots that “Stalin killed 97.8% of his people – 200 Billion dead”… if you don’t get what I’m trying to say by posting that inaccurate quote, think of it this way – in Stalin’s time, only 2 Billion people inhabited the earth. Today its 6 Billion.

Good day, I think this will be my last post.

Money is merely a symbol which represents food, clothing, housing, jewelry, etc….You mean to tell me these things do not exist in communist societies or that there will not be envy by one man who covets another man’s wife? Money is amoral, it is the “love of money that is the root of all evil,” If money did not exist there would be a rivalry over other things, for as I stated, lust and greed proceeds from man’s nature. Murder and war existed before money and would exist if money ceased being.

“The US has Cuba under close military watch, and deliberately destroys its economy with a trade embargo.”

If Cuba is so great why do they need to remove the trade embargo to engage in capitalism with capitalist to save their economy?

It is impossible to be equally poor as it is to be equally rich. Money has no value if it is all equal. After all, if everyone is equally rich, that means no is rich and no one has valued money. This is nonetheless a good thing which helps eliminate many of the problems of the world such as greed. Unless not all money is destroyed… then greed will lurk such as the case with former communist societies.